Developing Global Citizens

South African educators visit Santa Fe College

November 26, 2019 Azwinndini Christopher Tshivashe, Bhekifini Sibusiso Vincent Mthethwa, and Noluthando Balfour Season 1 Episode 4
Developing Global Citizens
South African educators visit Santa Fe College
Show Notes Transcript

Twenty-five years after the end of Apartheid, 16 delegates from South Africa visited Santa Fe College and shared their rich experiences of living, and educating, in a young democracy. Their visit was part of the Community College Administrator Program (CCAP) funded by the United States Department of State. In this episode of Developing Global Citizens, our host Vilma Fuentes discusses the progress and challenges of the last 25 years with special guests:

  • Azwinndini Christopher Tshivashe, Principal of the Limpopo Region CET
  • Bhekifini Sibusiso Vincent Mthethwa, Principal of the Kwazulu-Natal Region CET
  • Noluthando Balfour, Principal of King Hintsa TVET College in Gauteng Province

With high unemployment numbers, particularly for blacks, the role of education in South Africa is critical. These three college administrators are entrenched in the work of bringing about social change with the power of education, and they share their stories here. 

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Santa Fe college. This is Vilma[inaudible] with our podcast on developing global citizens. Today we're joined by a really special group of guests, um, for the last two weeks. In October, 2019 Santa Fe college has been honored to host a delegation of 16 higher education leaders from South Africa. They are all presidents of, uh, T vet colleges and community colleges in the country and they've been here on a special program sponsored by the us department of state, a program that Santa Fe is implementing in conjunction with Florida state university so that they could learn more about the American community college system. Today's their last day at Santa Fe and we're delighted to have them here as guests. Now, I did an invite all 16 guests, so I have only three and I'm going to ask them to please introduce themselves, tell us their name and what part of the country they're from. So please. I am dr[inaudible], principal of Limpopo community education and training college based in one of our provinces in the Northern part of the country. Limpopo. Excellent.

Speaker 2:

Good afternoon.[inaudible] my name is[inaudible]. I'm the principal of Kings college, which is a rural college, which is located in the Eastern Cape, in batter with seven two municipalities, local municipalities. Thank you.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. Velma. This is a bigger finish. We'll see some Tetra from KwaZulu natal, uh, community education and training college, which is in the province of KwaZulu natal, uh, in South Africa.

Speaker 1:

Perfect. So our American guests or audience members might be hearing your beautiful accents and thinking, wow, that's so great. They sound a little bit different. Um, tell us please. What is your mother tongue and how many languages do you speak? So Becca Feeney, could you go first please?

Speaker 3:

Uh, my mother tongue is Zulu. If you've ever heard about a Zulu King, the famous looking shocker. I'm a Zulu speaking person, but I can speak Afrikaans. I can speak a closest is what the LA uh, yeah, pretty much. That's about it. I can speak. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Hello. I am[inaudible]. I am a Casa as my college's name after the prominent Casa King, King inter, who was killed in the 18 century. I can speak English, I can speak Africans. And Zulu, I just listened. Tools is so true. I can speak so certain. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

I speak chief and uh, Steven

Speaker 4:

is my mother tongue. This is the language that you find in the Northern part of the country bordering Zimbabwe. I can speak also at the, um, six, uh, African languages that are used in South Africa.

Speaker 2:

Excellent.

Speaker 1:

Well to, just to show off. Well, I can speak Spanish. That's my mother tongue. It and I can also speak a little bit of French and Ukrainian, but thank you. You, I know that you represent a country with 11 official languages and it's delightful to know how many of them you've been able to master this year. South Africa celebrates 25 years since the end of apartheid, 25 years since the election of Nelson Mandela as president, uh, 25 years since the transition to democracy. So tell us what has changed in South Africa. What have you achieved?

Speaker 2:

Can you[inaudible] eh, a lot has happened in South Africa. If we can trace back the history of South Africa, where we're come from. Before democracy. We were in a, in an I partake system, which is specifically was discriminating, especially on the Plex. We're very much disadvantaged, so in the event of the freedom in 20 in 1994 that's when they will, we saw a change, a change in the policies that had to stop blacks in terms of getting even better education because the laws that were passed in 1948 were discriminatory so that the blacks can have their, their lower jobs in terms of the oldest jobs that we knew about then that way for the legs where the white collar jobs that is you being a teacher was a better job being a police, being a ness in terms of skills development, the focus of the country. We were not exposed to such opportunities as the Plex, but the democracy of open ended the dose of learning for all as enshrined in our freedom chat. Thank you

Speaker 4:

and maybe to add on that, I think we are[inaudible] after Tinder. I mean in this 25 years, we still got our challenges. But I think also we've got our major achievements, which are, one of them is really being part of the global weld. You know, we are a year because of that initiative. Furthermore to that I think the opening up of educational opportunities and the protection and the promotion of human rights, the issue, uh, I headed the center of our democracy and we, um, I mean in that 25 years over really seen about four presidents that ruled the country, which I think is also an example to other States, motor specialty, some African States where leadership wants to be there forever. A feather to that. I think one solution which, uh, our former president Nelson Mandela used to talk about was to say the education will only be a weapon that can liberate the country and make each and every individual in South Africa to be proud of himself or herself. So we're are really grateful for that opportunity.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. Uh, thank you very much. I think my connects, I've said a lot. I can just sum up and say for me that is coming out as most of standing as is the opportunity opportunity, uh, for people to improve their lives. And the, the, the establishment of community colleges is a Testament, for example, two such opportunities which had never been there as specially directed to people who are, who were much analyzed and to those who were poor. So I think that one for me comes tops as well. And on top of what the my colleagues have just said, but also as I close the issue of a government that seems to be caring for the people, that for me is very touching because it's for the first time that we felt as a country that, excuse me, we have got a government that is caring, that is doing something, even developing policies that are pro upliftment of people. So for me, that is also coming up tops.

Speaker 1:

So, so South Africa made a transition to democracy, made a peaceful transition to democracy. I know there was many, uh, political analysts that feared it would break into civil war and it didn't. And it's had a four peaceful transitions of power. So it's a huge achievement. Really. Congratulations. And now you're educating your people, right? It's, the literacy rates today among the youth are significantly higher than they were during the apartheid period. Maybe your parents' generation. Um, tell me please. How's the economy doing? Do you think the economy has also democratized

Speaker 4:

to Toto, to our next 10? You know, uh, I think the economy has democratized in the issue that I think that, um, the issues of policies, you know, economic policies that are their, uh, their, their, their economic policies now that promotes trading and the economic activities between the various countries. I mean, as we are talking now, uh, two days ago, our president is in Russia to talk about economic issues. However, I think we need to highlight the, the challenges, you know, in of economic reforms. Um, the changes have not been, uh, the way that many people will have loved the tin V Sage. And one of the indicator is the high unemployment rate, you know, which if the economy was fine, warden will have lower unemployment rate. Uh, but despite those challenges, I think we are grateful that the government is trying to grab each and every opportunity to improve the lives of our people through participation in various economic activities. There are a number of relationship building exercise that have been done. We are part of Greeks and we are trying to participate in the world economic activities. That is why, uh, our condo also goes to world economic forum. Uh, but the challenges are there internally years. We still feel the rate in which the wealth is being divided amongst the various members of population group is not that satisfactory. You still got a lot of wealth in the hands of white people. Yes, there are black people that are coming that are key participant in our economic activities. So we think that the future will be bright. We just need to work very hard and not the Rez, the real challenges that we are facing as a country. So

Speaker 1:

if I could so to, to review. So unemployment is high. I think in the country overall it's 30 something, 35%, but among youth in the country, people 30 and under, it's over 50%. Um, beg of Feeney today. You were explaining to me how that reveals itself in everyday life. So you were saying, if I could take you to a township,

Speaker 3:

Hmm, what, what would we see? Oh, you would see exactly what is, what is indicative of the high statistics of unemployment 55.6 or 5%. It's a lot. So you would see a lot of droves of young people waking up and sitting on the streets and, uh, and, and, uh, virtually doing nothing. And, and, and I think I, that talks to, uh, the initiative of government to start what we call community colleges to address about 18 million young people without skills or education and adults, so that those people then can become, you know, uh, responsive to the economy or they can take part in the economy. I am not, um, pessimistic about the reality. What gives us hope is that the opportunity, which we talked about in our introduction is there, is there, especially with these institutions of higher learning, which I've started to really address that so that we can tend the tide, you will know that we are only 25 years into democracy, very young democracy. It's very young. And the, the, the system of draconian rules that brought us into where we are, have been there for so many years. So it will take some time. But if there are challenges as my, my, my colleague has said, but the good thing is that, uh, with these opportunities it gives hope for some thing to be done.

Speaker 1:

And just as a followup, so you come from KwaZulu natal part of the country that has a lot of agriculture, a who owns the land,

Speaker 3:

who works. This is a very difficult question but a very easy question for me to ask to answer because I don't own any land. The vast majority of our land is owned by a few percentage of, uh, white people in South Africa. And that is why the issue of land is such a big deal in South Africa because the, the, the farms where these agriculture, today's practice is owned by majority white people, very few black farmers, farmers are there. So that is another question. And they, they can only participate through labor they offer, but they are not owning the land. And that's another challenge that I think our government is trying to grapple with, eh, which we hope they will be able to find some stability also in that front.

Speaker 1:

So[inaudible] are you seeing these same factors playing out in your part of the country? The challenges with the economy but perhaps opportunities[inaudible]

Speaker 2:

yes. Yes. As my colleagues have indicated that in terms of the economic agenda, it is in the center of our government, eh, there are many documents and policies that have been developed to boost our economy. We have the national development plan, which explains clearly what needs to be done and achieved in 28 which is our vision 2030 as a country. However, based on the challenges that has been set, eh, the government is doing all it. It's only all that is good to make sure that there is implementation because there are weaknesses in terms of the policy is there, but if there are poor implementation and monitoring in some instances, hence now the, the way I participating as the colleges and government and industry in what is called the human resource development cancer, which is specifically focusing on skills development for the purposes of posting the economy, which transcends to the provinces in the form of the premiums in the provinces are responsible to make sure that the human resource development councils and they, they do, they focus and monitor implementation and also participation of industry because we are also at them at their back foot in terms of industry coming forth. Eh, due to our legislations get that there. But the national development plan compels all the stakeholders to participate and play a major role in terms of economic development. Excellent. It's also interesting in terms of the lens that you are asking because in my area, in the province, mostly then the land is owned by the Kings, then the, and um, and, and the local tribal authorities. But did they are certain areas in the Eastern Cape which is own Twite owned, some of them are owners of the land in the province. I brought and the land is just laying. It's not utilized then.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. I think when you're in South Africa, when you talk off the Lind question, the history indicates the, I mean the main 13 EGT totality disposes the Africans of their land. And then that is why as of current, the land is sort of divided into four, uh, compartments. You know, you will have a lot of commercial land, which currently is owned by white people. You also have government land. Do you know which government decide to say, how do they utilize it? Part of the commercial land that is where you find a lot of mines. You know, we know South African is very rich in minerals and then you also have young rural land, which will belong to the tribal chiefs. However they are, don't, they don't seem to be owning the land because the act to say you can only administrate the land on behalf of the government. You know, that is why each time you talk off, Oh, so there's also private land where people have got the lease for the land and the ownership of the land. So that complicates the issues. Just in terms of the lend, generally you can just say the land that belongs to all the white we, because it's categorized and nothing that is also a government. Last year we named parliament, there was a submission, you know, on the new proposal to say how should land reform be eh, be done in South Africa. And I think it's still a debate now. Various parties are contesting the issue on the distribution of the land of cause. The, those that call own commercial land say no, the government, you know, to take land. And there are those that are saying land should be taken. And the two issues that critical issues should have land be taken with composition or not. And that is currently the debate to say do the mass government take land, give it back to the owners without composition. Must

Speaker 1:

be people be compensated because some of what on the land or not, you know, and some organization are saying, but the land was taken without any conversation. So it must be repossessed without conversation. Um, yeah.[inaudible] seen in South Africa, we hope there'll be positive solution where the people who really can benefit from the land that they own. So if we return again to the focus on education. So you've, you've come here on a special grant sponsored by the us department of state, specifically the Bureau of educational and cultural affairs with the intent of, I'm showing you the American community college system. So you've been in Florida three weeks and in Santa Fe college in particular, the last two weeks. Is there anything you've seen that you think is of relevance to South Africa? I mean, we have different types of colleges and different models, but um, is there anything you've seen that seems relevant to you? And if so, what has stood out to you?

Speaker 3:

Uh, for me, when we're there, we're being told about the history that was very relevant to our history. Uh, talk to also the challenges we faced at home. Uh, the issue of demographics of the people whom the community colleges are trying to address. It speaks exactly to our demographics, uh, at home. Uh, so, but what I care, what I think I'm taking back home is, is some aspects of the model which are very exciting. I will just highlight one which I think and it's the issue which we, something that we need to talk about at home and see how we can do it and do it much better. Uh, when the resources we have the issue of collaboration where you talk off[inaudible] uh, enrollment. Yes. The issue of, uh, articulation for me that is super because one, it says a student who can afford to study Creek car is not, you know, delayed is accelerated and that is saving a lot of resources. Yes. And that is also pushing that particular student to participate in the economy. And there is nothing better than that given the challenges we faced, especially among our young people. So the very same thing I'm taking on and there are so many, but um, let me highlight that for now.

Speaker 1:

And, and you mentioned articulation. What, what aspect of articulation most impressed your articulation from high school to college or college to university?

Speaker 3:

Everything. Everything. Let me tell you why. Because we are at our country even looking at how can we start skills, uh, kind of base education even at high schools. So, but then the issue is how can we make it talk to our[inaudible], how can we make it talk to our community colleges so that the person may be who has studied it at the high school, can easily articulate and is given that credit when he joins that particular, uh, organization or activity level. But also how can the T that work with the university of technology so that if I take courses, then those courses, they talk to exactly what is being done at a university of technology level. So for me, that is the whole model. I found it very exciting. What about for you? A little time.

Speaker 2:

I don't know where to start because as soon as[inaudible] saying in terms of the[inaudible] similarities of the this country, much as it is a first world developed country with our country in terms of their past, eh and the current. But when it comes to education and the community colleges, what I've learnt, eh, I, my colleagues agree with that. Also starting from the library to attack the GCC and the eh guest, the Gulf coast, Florida, Gulf coast coast, Florida,[inaudible] community colleges and then come here now to Santa Fe, but I would the three that I didn't Tallahassee, yes they, I've seen something special in terms of the, what they are doing, the role of industry to ensure that today they are part of the community colleges and all showed which also guarantees their students that are trained in these institutions that they will get jobs because in library tech technical college we were told that the employers come and seek for, for for young people to be employed. So meaning that the colleges are not training for the sake of training to tick boxes. They train for job market and also the curriculum is relevant to what the industry eh, once. And also in terms of the curriculum, the industry is at the center of curriculum development. Eh. Then coming to Santa Fe, I saw something more above the, even our universities in South Africa, eh, in terms of the vendors of the, of the institution, starting from the students and the, and the employees of the college. I think they are taking the college to, to higher Heights with the current attitudes because it is the attitude that determines your altitude. So the, the values of this Patti Jula institution, eh, and, and, and, and pride that in their staff and the students of their, of their college, eh, this college is also having a lot of things too that we've learned that we have never saw in our institutions. The zoo planetarium, the, um, uh, state of arts and many other things. Even the standards of, uh, of, uh, of our classrooms is far above their glove. The standards that we have. So we have lend and Lowell learning a lot and I think we're going to take home. I do add towards versus in saying the issue of articulation because I think the issue of dual enrollment also gives chances to the students to ensure that the students, the, there is a similar system within the country and within the colleges that are here. And I also see that the Sunday fair being at the center of community development, the garden when we were taken down there in downtown with them don't have sort of Tabby, but I did the the doctor, the injured, yes. Indicated to us that today he, she has her responsibility to go to the communities to go to the churches to go to everywhere and check the needs of the of the communities. That's Dr. Karen Cole Smith who oversees our East Gainesville initiative. Yes, yes, yes. So that means this aspect of the community college is not just a word of mouth, it is being practiced and there in in much as we have not met with the community, I'm sure the community is happy because you are addressing the needs of the community. And offer programs that are relevant to the community?

Speaker 4:

Yeah. I think for me we are really taking a basket full of the lessons that we can learn. Uh, just at a high level stuff. For me, I think it's critical that you exposed us to your systems and systemic planning. You know, in terms of community colleges, I think that is very important. Uh, your fed, they exposed us to the issues around governance of a community college, which I think are very, very critical that all of this data and the role of the federal government, uh, for me you have shown us, um, that really very, very good examples about it. Then coming back into this virus colleges that we visited, uh, the planning inside of the college, you know, the planning in terms of the curriculum and what needs to be taught and what needs to be land and watchful that results in, you know, so for me that link is very, very important in many of our institutions who are doing the teaching and the learning, but times we don't even envisage to see where should these lenders be. You know, at the end of the day, education should really, really make the difference in the individuals that have gone through this school. If I get this kind of qualification, I need to be able to empower myself as an individual work, have a family and be a member of the community. And that is why for me to say you are a commune, it's very, very, very important. But, and then we see it at Santa Fe's reflected in each and every day activity. But I'm more some, I mean for us, you also showed out the virus infrastructure because many of us will think a community college will only have classrooms where people are taught. But there are other issues that are the, my colleague mission, the zoo and also that and so on. So for me, I think that's a reflection of what a community college should do. And at the end, uh, for me, I think, um, Santa Fe and the community colleges in USA, I'm making a lot of changes in individual life and in community life. Uh, I, I, my strengths strong, a strong believer that education is about to change. You know, change at an individual level, change at a community level, change at a society level, change at a global level.

Speaker 1:

So we've also exposed you though to a lot of our students cause at the end of the day we don't want you to just take our word for it. We've like thrown you in the classroom where students, we've invited them to hear you and speak to you in small group discussions. We've invited you to ask questions of them and them a view. And there was even one day you visited our student governments on several days you interacted with students. Um, what are your thoughts or impressions of our students?

Speaker 3:

I just wanted to add and say if I were to say something about what we are taking on top of what my colleagues have just said, doctor[inaudible] and not a tandem. Your students are so lucky to be here. It's an affair. It's aware or Mateen structured for 11th. There is something, uh, there, there is nothing as breathtaking as what I witnessed yesterday with dr Nagy and all your student counseling staff to see that for the students who enter the Gates of center fair, really the chances of the student not doing well are so minimized. It could be something extraordinary because the student is supported, the student is given state of the art infrastructure, the environment in classrooms. The support you get even for your international students they have served declared that they are, they feel extremely supported. So for me that one is breathtaking but just to add as I close the issue of even taking care of the people with disabilities you have, there is no way in which a person is disabled here. Even a person who is coming with some kind of disability you have shown you are showing us that there is always a way to make that person achieve his or her potential. Thank you for that.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. I think in addition to what you, I was also saying is the issue of on student student governance. I saw the students that are very responsible, very responsible and like our students in, in, in my college, eh, because some of them they get into the college because they want to access eh, allowances from the[inaudible] funds. But I say I saw, we had interactions with most of them in their, in, in, in their meetings that we had the press, the president, your tech deputy president and the deputy president. They showed the, the, the, the sense of responsibility and the show sense of understanding was the deputy president and the president were also showing, uh, telling us about the elections, how they emerged from the elections. There is no contestation like in, in my case, in the, in the college route, even deadlock, the, the elections. So your students are very, very, very much responsible as I've indicated that they uphold the values of this particular institution. And with them it means that their future, their future is bright and also the, the future of their country will be in cold tents.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. I think for me one of the critical issues, which I think is a compliment to this college and also to the students is that the activities and the activities both in terms of teaching and learning, you know, students out is put at the center. I think for me it does. Very, very impressive. I mean do you mean pressive this college? I mean the first day that you come as a student into this college, you're dead to the center. You know at the end of the college will not say we are at the center. You came because of us. I think the colleges admitted to say we exist because of[inaudible] students and for me if we start from there, from that plumbers, we will always make sure that all our activities are centered towards the students and there is nothing else that you can do to empower the students for their future unless if it says an institution USA.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

The only activities of this college academic activities, extramural activities, governance of the students should really prepare them for the future. Well, and I think, I mean you have got a lot of international students. For me, the intention with this students just reflects the next communities that we are building. We are building global communities here. You know, I can tell you, I'm not sure they'll be able to do it, but if you decide after five years and just track where out those students, where will they be? I can tell you there will almost be all over the parts of the world, you know, which I think is a very, very good, um, thing that is a college you are doing. And then at the end I can assure you that the culture that we have created, student council that we have created here will make those students go very, very far. You listen their, their debate, their quality of their debate, you know, the quality of the questions that they were asking us. Familiar as I was saying, this is a world class, you know, wealth plus interaction. And if we can all strive for that, the future of all our country, the future of this world will be bright.

Speaker 1:

Well we, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2:

I think lastly, I forgot to mention that the teamwork that we saw amongst themselves, you are also a special ed in terms of the program. I know the program is under your leadership, but you have been extra or did not interview. It shows the passion that you have working together with the other team members. I feel like mass mentioned that because you have been wonderful to us and during this period.

Speaker 1:

Well, I definitely, I want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and your opinions. Uh, I completely agree. We live in a globalized world, in a globalized economy, and we're trying to prepare our students to engage in that work, in that economy, and be global citizens. And your visit here, your interaction with them was part of that. So thank you for helping us develop global[inaudible].