Developing Global Citizens
Developing Global Citizens
Siempre Sigue Soñando
Dr. Vilma Fuentes welcomes two Santa Fe College Latina employees, Olga Asimbaya from the Records office and Ismelda Alvarez from the Admissions office. In advance of Hispanic Heritage Month the two discuss their own history and the paths they took to earn their college degrees. In addition, both Ismelda and Olga discuss why they have chosen to give back in service to students and encourage Spanish speakers of all ages interested in attending college to register for Sigue Soñando, an admissions event hosted by Spanish-speaking SF employees to cover the application process, various entry points to college based on language proficiency and how to overcome common barriers.
00:00:00:07 - 00:00:21:03
Vilma Fuentes
Welcome to Santa Fe College. My name is Vilma Fuentes, and this is our podcast, Developing Global Citizens. As we prepare to celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month. I am delighted to welcome two Latinas on campus, Olga Asimbaya, assistant registrar and Ismelda Alvarez, admissions specialist. Welcome, ladies.
00:00:21:09 - 00:00:23:08
Olga Asimbaya
Hello. Ismelda.
00:00:23:16 - 00:00:24:13
Ismelda Alvarez
Hey, I'm glad to be here.
00:00:25:03 - 00:00:43:09
Vilma Fuentes
Thank you so much. So, it's fascinating to have both of you here. And, well, I know a little bit about your stories and what brought you to Santa Fe, but I'm going to ask if you could please share that with the rest of us. And I think, Olga, I'm going to begin with you. So, all got you started.
00:00:43:10 - 00:00:49:17
Vilma Fuentes
You're, you're now serving again as the assistant registrar. But when you started at Santa Fe, you started as a student, right?
00:00:49:20 - 00:00:50:13
Olga Asimbaya
Yes.
00:00:50:14 - 00:00:51:18
Vilma Fuentes
Tell me about that, please.
00:00:52:08 - 00:01:00:05
Olga Asimbaya
I started I started in the ESL program. No, I started in the adult education program.
00:01:00:11 - 00:01:02:06
Vilma Fuentes
Adult education, ESOLl.
00:01:02:18 - 00:01:29:01
Olga Asimbaya
And then I went to the ESL program. It used to be an easel program. Yes, a program for two years. So, I went to the adult education and they when they realized I can, I have an AA degree, because when I came here, I didn't know any English at all, like nothing. So, when I was able to say, Hey, my name is Olga, and I have a high school diploma, they say, Oh, then you can go to the ESOL program.
00:01:30:17 - 00:01:46:16
Vilma Fuentes
So. Okay, so, so let's pause for a second because you've done a lot here. So, you came here and when you started it was the adult education program where they're teaching English as a second language. And really, we can accept anybody, whether, you know, a little bit of English or no English, right?
00:01:46:16 - 00:01:47:18
Olga Asimbaya
Yes. Yes.
00:01:47:19 - 00:01:53:21
Vilma Fuentes
So, what were you doing at that point in your life that brought you, you know, and how did you even hear about us?
00:01:54:11 - 00:02:14:19
Olga Asimbaya
Well, I used to work when I came here. I used I went to work in the farms. I used to pick up vegetables, used to pick up tomatoes. The squash. I used to be a school. I was a single mom and I needed to work. And but, you know, I just work in the farms.
00:02:15:08 - 00:02:18:14
Vilma Fuentes
And was that in Alachua County or what city?
00:02:18:19 - 00:02:36:16
Olga Asimbaya
Yes, I used to work in Alachua County. And the reason why I started working there is because I didn't know English. And since someone from the migrant program, they, you know, they go and help migrant people. They told me, you should go into the school and learn English.
00:02:37:06 - 00:02:45:01
Vilma Fuentes
Excellent. And were you, were the other people working on the farms? Were they also Spanish speakers or Hispanics? What were they from?
00:02:45:06 - 00:03:09:11
Olga Asimbaya
Oh, there are a lot of Spanish people that come. Some of them cross the border. Some of them are legal, but they don't speak English. Like I didn't speak English. And then at that time, there was not much people that speaks, you know, Spanish in different places. So, we that's the beginning. That's where we started.
00:03:10:06 - 00:03:13:00
Vilma Fuentes
And where are you from? Where were you born and raised?
00:03:13:01 - 00:03:19:04
Olga Asimbaya
Well, I grew up. I was born in Ecuador until I was 15. Then I moved to Dominican Republic.
00:03:19:16 - 00:03:23:12
Vilma Fuentes
Great. And how did you eventually get to Florida or Alachua County?
00:03:23:23 - 00:03:30:22
Olga Asimbaya
Well, I got married with an American citizen. Then I moved to New York and New York. Nobody. I didn't need to speak English.
00:03:31:15 - 00:03:32:03
Vilma Fuentes
Right. Yeah.
00:03:32:13 - 00:03:44:17
Olga Asimbaya
I live in New York. And then eventually I moved to Florida because of a situation, you know, very abusive situation. So, I got freedom on in Florida. I got freedom in Florida.
00:03:45:01 - 00:04:03:09
Vilma Fuentes
And you learned English in Florida. Okay. So, you started learning English at the basic level. We call it through our English as a second language program, through adult education. And then from there, they told you about the English for academic purposes. I'm guessing EOP.
00:04:03:17 - 00:04:31:01
Olga Asimbaya
Yes. I spend in the EAP program. They used to be a few semesters program a sometime I graduated and then I kept going and you know from the program and they kept going to from my A.A. my first a certificate B.S. certificate, my A.S., my A.A., my bachelor's. You know, eventually, little bit by little bit.
00:04:31:04 - 00:04:35:05
Vilma Fuentes
We just kept studying. And so what, what bachelor's did you complete?
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Olga Asimbaya
I complete my Organizational Management.
00:04:41:02 - 00:04:48:18
Vilma Fuentes
And organizational management. And I think my recollection is you were working here as a student, right? Like part time.
00:04:48:21 - 00:05:17:23
Olga Asimbaya
Oh, my gosh. Santa Fe house me is my home. Because a because of all the awesome programs in Santa Fe has I started working as financial aid. I work, study, work. I was work study first. I work at the gym globally. So beautiful people. It wasn't it was awesome. And then then I went to work in the Health Sciences as a part time.
00:05:18:05 - 00:05:28:19
Olga Asimbaya
I had a part them then they got a full time in the Health Sciences Administration and so on. I keep moving forward in different departments.
00:05:28:22 - 00:05:31:20
Vilma Fuentes
And what about your kids? You said you were a single mom. What have they done?
00:05:32:03 - 00:05:46:02
Olga Asimbaya
Oh, my kids my daughter is, is going she got her A.A. degree here at Santa Fe and she's doing her A.S. right now. She's graduating in fall and she's going to follow her. A biotechnology bachelor's here.
00:05:46:23 - 00:05:48:21
Vilma Fuentes
Excellent. Excellent.
00:05:49:00 - 00:06:01:16
Olga Asimbaya
Then my kids used to come to class with me because the professors were so awesome. Sometimes they didn't have day care. And so, I see them down in the corner with a movie nearby once, and it's wonderful. And I made it.
00:06:02:03 - 00:06:09:12
Vilma Fuentes
You made it. You made it. And you were just telling me some really great news. You are about to start a new academic program.
00:06:09:12 - 00:06:13:03
Olga Asimbaya
Yes. I got accepted for my master's degree at UF.
00:06:13:08 - 00:06:28:17
Vilma Fuentes
At the University of Florida. And what will the master's be in?
Olga Asimbaya
In Higher education.
Vilma Fuentes
Higher education? Wow. How exciting. Okay, so I think for me, the lesson of the story is don't stop, don't give up, don't stay still, keep going, and it'll only get better.
00:06:29:00 - 00:06:52:09
Olga Asimbaya
Yeah. And if you're honest, you know, you talk to your professors, like, in my case, I had a newborn, like my fourth kid, and I was single and I. I had to take my class online. I will breastfeed and listen to the class. Right. And then I will talk to the professor. And if you don't understand something, it's really, really important to ask.
00:06:52:09 - 00:07:01:18
Olga Asimbaya
You know, they really friendly. They, they, they always answer to your questions and they help if you want to do it, they. You make it.
00:07:02:05 - 00:07:08:13
Vilma Fuentes
That's awesome. Thank you. Ismelda. Okay, so you were, were you a Santa Fe student?
00:07:08:21 - 00:07:38:23
Ismelda Alvarez
No, I was not. I got into UF, I got into UF with a full-ridel scholarship called the Machen Opportunity Scholars Program. And then through that, once I graduated, I realized like I wanted to work in higher education, specifically work with students, high school students who might be considered first-generation. And going through what I went through, my experience being a first-generation college student, I knew there was a lot of obstacles that people face.And so that's what led me kind of to work here at Santa Fe College.
00:07:39:12 - 00:07:47:17
Vilma Fuentes
So. Okay, so let's backtrack a little tell me a little bit more about yourself. Where, where were you born or raised and what were your experiences growing up?
00:07:48:03 -
Ismelda Alvarez
Yeah, so I grew up in what we call Jennings, Florida, but I always tell people I grew up in Hamilton County because Hamilton County composed, is composed of Jennings, Jasper and White Springs. We all went to one high school. It's north Florida is an hour away from here before you get into Georgia. And Jennings board is mainly a lot of agriculture.
So, there's a lot of Hispanics there specifically Mexicans and a few Guatemalans there. And they all work in the fields. They all work picking vegetables, specifically tomatoes in Jennings because we have a specific company. So, I grew up as the daughter of a migrant farm worker. And so once again, because there's a lot of farmworkers in the area, I also grew up translating and interpreting for a lot of people in my community as early as ten years old.
So, I would go with them to the hospitals or even to jails and doctor visits. I would drive for them. So, I would just like kind of become like a service for the people in my community. And my dad always emphasized the importance of giving back to our community as much as possible. He is a single father. So, at the age of ten, my mother walked out of my life and my dad became a single parent and working a minimum wage job out in the fields, raising two teenagers on his own.
So, you know, the struggle is real. We grew up eating eggs, peas and tortillas for months straight. But I am grateful for those struggles because I know the importance of hard work no matter what. My dad always emphasized the power of education and at nights we used to have like two-hour speeches from him talking about the importance of education and breaking the cycle poverty.
But I'm so glad that he believed in us at a young age, because even when I couldn't believe in myself, he said, “You have more”. And now my brothers and I, we've been able to accomplish so much. There have been huge blessings and I couldn't do it without the support of my dad or even without my faith. But that's one of the things that I want to continue to give back to people is just give hope, because I know what it's like in the midst of of life darkness, just to feel like there's no hope or you have these dreams, you have these big goals.
But I think all things are definitely possible.
00:09:57:09 - 00:10:10:05
Vilma Fuentes
So, you made it from high school. You went from high school to U.F. as the recipient of the Machen Florida Opportunity Scholarship. So, does this mean you were a straight-A student and you had super high SATs or ACTs?
00:10:10:11 - 00:10:18:21
Ismelda Alvarez
No. Definitely not.
Vilma Fuentes
Tell me about that.
Ismelda Alvarez
So, I was an honor roll student all my life, for the most part, except for middle school, because middle school is a different story.
00:10:18:21 - 00:10:20:09
Vilma Fuentes
You know, you try to find yourself.
00:10:21:14 - 00:10:40:11
Ismelda Alvarez
But for the most part, I worked really hard as far as like SAT scores. SAT scores, no. What that has to come with like studying and obviously like speaking two languages and all that kind of stuff, but not necessarily. I had average grades for sure, and I definitely was top ten in my class.
00:10:40:18 - 00:10:44:23
Vilma Fuentes
Excellent. But you applied and you got in. And so what did you study at U.F.?
00:10:44:23 - 00:10:46:18
Ismelda Alvarez
Public relations.
00:10:46:22 - 00:10:47:09
Vilma Fuentes
Excellent.
00:10:47:10 - 00:10:58:02
Ismelda Alvarez
I love talking to people. You know, there were people I'm like, give me give me talking to crowd. Give me talking to people. I love you back planning. Don't give me math so much or science right.
00:10:58:02 - 00:11:05:16
Vilma Fuentes
Okay, so, but, but then you went from public relations into a community college. Why?
00:11:06:04 - 00:11:32:08
Ismelda Alvarez
Yes, because I've always been passionate about education. Once again, coming from my community. A lot of people don't go to college. Mainly that comes because they don't know the process of college.
The process of college. I didn't know the process of college. I just knew I had to go. Right. I wasn't sure where I was going to go. U.F. wasn't even my dream school. I didn't want to go to U.F., but they were like, hey, here you go, you got in, you got a full ride scholarship. And I was like, Okay, I guess I'm a go.
00:11:32:19 - 00:11:54:16
Ismelda Alvarez
Of course, my faith plays a huge part in that. And so, and then I'm moving to Gainesville, my older brother, who's a year older, me, he was at UAF already because that was his dream school. And so, I had him to kind of be like a source to me. But even then, going through senior year, basically by myself, I was able to call my brother every once in a while, but still going through that whole process alone.
00:11:54:23 - 00:12:18:11
Ismelda Alvarez
It can be overwhelming having someone in your household who doesn't know the college process, it becomes even more of a roaming. I was just like Dad, like I need money to pay for this admissions fee and so, he's like, okay, how much is it? And he supported me financially as much as possible, but he couldn't really help me with specific words or Florida residency or even does a whole application process.
00:12:18:19 - 00:12:36:12
Ismelda Alvarez
So going through that process, I knew I wanted to work with people. I knew I wanted to do some kind of giving back to individuals. And when I saw the position, because I was actually after graduation thinking about moving to Jacksonville, I got accepted into Teach for America and I was like, I want to do this. I want to work with students no matter what.
00:12:36:12 - 00:12:54:05
Ismelda Alvarez
And something told me, don’t go. So, I was like, okay, if I don't go, what am I supposed to do? So, job position at that time as recruitment specialist, which was a part time position and it sounded perfect, I was able to work with like high school students to get into college, and I was like, I think this is what I want to do.
00:12:54:05 - 00:13:21:17
Ismelda Alvarez
So, then my interview and they were like, we want you, which is my former supervisor or is my supervisor right now quit. And he's like, yeah, like, like, listen, we want to hire you. And I started off as recruitment specialist for a year to follow. You got a full-time position working for as a past program coordinator. And I was able to go more into the high schools through that, through that position and been able to full-time see the students here in the area, too, because, yes, you can be a student at USF.
00:13:21:17 - 00:13:39:03
Ismelda Alvarez
But then I realized too, the more that I got involved in the community as a college student there, students 10 minutes down the road were dealing with, you know, homelessness, who they're hungry, they're dealing with life situations. And I didn't want to be just caught up in this like college bubble. I wanted to get out into the community and really make a difference.
00:13:39:22 - 00:13:58:11
Ismelda Alvarez
And it's always something that I've been driven to do, is to help out no matter where I am and to make a difference, like whatever that is, whatever it may look like. I truly believe in the in the power of one of reaching one person. It's not about full-time a huge group of numbers, but you can literally change one person's life and you change that person's life.
00:13:58:11 - 00:14:00:21
Ismelda Alvarez
You change generations. You can change your whole community.
00:14:01:07 - 00:14:24:05
Vilma Fuentes
Absolutely. And you know, I'm a proud graduate of the University of Florida, but I work at Santa Fe College, and I know that especially today, it's very, very difficult for high school students to make it into the University of Florida immediately out of high school. No matter how good your grades are, no matter how high your full-time SAT scores, it's just very challenging.
00:14:24:14 - 00:14:46:09
Vilma Fuentes
And I think it coming to a community college like Santa Fe is really a great option. So full-time if you want to reach people, if you want them to say, hey, look at a path I've followed, you can come to Santa Fe and you could complete a bachelors like all that did right here at Santa Fe, like you or like your daughter is doing now, right through the biotech program.
00:14:46:18 - 00:15:15:10
Vilma Fuentes
Or you could just come and complete your AA and transfer to the university and any of our public universities here. So, it's a really great choice. And so, so wonderful. So, so well, either one of you, I think both of you have been working on this, but I'm going to specifically ask each male that you've been trying to do a lot of new innovative things, doing outreach specifically to the Spanish speaking community here in Alachua and Bradford County.
00:15:15:10 - 00:15:20:22
Vilma Fuentes
Tell us about that. Like, what are you trying to do? Why? How can the rest of us know and help you?
00:15:21:08 - 00:15:41:10
Ismelda Alvarez
Yeah, excuse me. So being one of, like two full time Spanish speakers in the office, I get a lot of emails. People come into the office, they want to know more information about admissions and getting to Santa Fe, whether to come in and learn English or ESOL program, whether it is to start a degree. They're coming from different backgrounds.
00:15:41:10 - 00:16:12:16
Ismelda Alvarez
So, I was getting the same questions that we typically do and I was like, you know why we don't just host an event that can target all of them. Yes, I will still be able to individually work with people, but I also knew that there's a group of people out there that haven't reached people who might be afraid to ask questions, people who don't know where to start, just like starting anything, not just college, but, for example, working out, you know, I love going to the gym, but I as someone who's been consistent to gym, I can tell you there's a lot of information out there about working out, too.
00:16:12:16 - 00:16:29:18
Ismelda Alvarez
And you as a people, we get overwhelmed when there's a lot of good information out there. And I was like, you know what, let's just start something to give people information in. And then from there they'll be able to ask those questions because they don't know what to ask either. Just working with first gen students, not just a Spanish speaking population.
00:16:30:11 - 00:16:46:09
Ismelda Alvarez
And I thought about the idea. I said, okay, I'm a I'm a kind of create proposal. And then I brought it up to my to my boss and he was like, Go for it. And I was like, okay, cool. And so from there, I started putting everything together and knew what was needed. I knew we needed a space.
00:16:46:09 - 00:17:05:08
Ismelda Alvarez
I knew we needed to find ways to target this. Reach out to the marketing department. I said,” Hey, we need to create a flier that's going to be that's going to specifically target the population we want to target that included colors, that included unity, that included, you know, just so, everything”. And I said, “We need a name for this”.
00:17:05:08 - 00:17:22:10
Ismelda Alvarez
And then I wanted the name to be powerful. And the name I came up with was Sia. Sonia brought it up to the planning team. I said, “What do you think about this”? Because I don't want it to be like corny, but I also want it to be inspiring. And so, she gets on, you know, it translates to keep dreaming because every single person that I've talked to never acted with.
00:17:22:15 - 00:17:45:23
Ismelda Alvarez
They have a dream no matter what that dream is. And I've spoken to like families, families have came into the office from mom, dad, grandma and the siblings and come they all have a dream. And we here at Santa Fe College have something for every single one of them, whether it is to start the ESL program or if it is to finish their bachelor's, or if it is even to start on an A degree.
00:17:46:15 - 00:18:05:00
Ismelda Alvarez
So that's where the name came from. The event kind of came from. And I mean, Velma, you were there like with the energy. Was there people come are hungry for this kind of information. And if people are hungry for anything, we should be able to come feed them. Right. We should be able to give them the information that they're seeking for.
00:18:05:18 - 00:18:23:16
Ismelda Alvarez
And there is a population out there and we kind of went in blindly not knowing what to expect. And I think the outcome was just like super great. And we can say that as a community college, we're serving our community. And then serving that community was the Spanish speaking community. So, I'm definitely excited to see moving forward.
00:18:23:16 - 00:18:28:10
Vilma Fuentes
And I think we're going to have another seasonal event now in the fall.
00:18:28:11 - 00:18:29:08
Ismelda Alvarez
Yes, yes.
00:18:29:08 - 00:18:30:00
Vilma Fuentes
Excellent.
00:18:32:00 - 00:18:54:09
Vilma Fuentes
So, Olga, let me ask you a I'll ask you a personal question, which some people would say is rude, but I'm going to do it for our audience. How old were you when you decided to come to college to a learn English and then, you know, do English for academic purposes and then start the AA? Give me were you 18?
00:18:54:09 - 00:18:56:01
Vilma Fuentes
Were you 22?
00:18:56:01 - 00:18:57:18
Olga Asimbaya
I was about 22.
00:18:57:19 - 00:18:58:11
Vilma Fuentes
22.
00:18:58:11 - 00:19:02:05
Olga Asimbaya
I was about 22 and 22 with three kids.
00:19:02:19 - 00:19:18:23
Vilma Fuentes
And two of three kids. And as you were going through classes here, would you say the students were younger than you? About the same age were the older like I guess I'm trying to get at who are the people that come to college at Santa Fe?
00:19:19:02 - 00:19:56:07
Olga Asimbaya
Well, the visa program had a lot of older people like me, like 20, 22, 25. But they have we have a lot of young students from other countries and Asian students that were really young in the 1817. Then we have older people. We have I remember having friends who called classmates and there was a psychology. Psychology is from Colombia, a doctor from Colombia, too.
00:19:56:16 - 00:19:59:15
Olga Asimbaya
And we have a variety of students.
00:20:00:01 - 00:20:34:11
Vilma Fuentes
Yeah, right. Because our EASL program and our EAP program, I mean, isn't just for people with no college degree, right? You can come from another country, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Peru, whatever, and maybe you have a profession in your country, but what you're missing is English. And so here is the community college to serve you to help you learn either the basic English you need to be functional in society, or to get that English up to that academic level, you need to exercise your profession or maybe continue into graduate school.
00:20:34:15 - 00:20:55:15
Vilma Fuentes
But that's why we have English for academic purposes. I know I can tell you teaching courses in the past that I've had students older than me, I've had students, you know, in high school dual enrollment, and I've had students in their forties, fifties, even sixties. Yeah. Like it runs the gamut. It's really diverse.
00:20:56:09 - 00:21:23:03
Olga Asimbaya
And you can have families too. I remember a one of my classmates was the wife and the husband, and they have kids that were in college already. And they came, you know, to the classes at Santa Fe and in the ESL program. And, you know, there's always people that are all there that come late and they don't know being the language and, you know, Santa Fe was this awesome food that is.
00:21:24:05 - 00:21:40:14
Vilma Fuentes
So, if you're someone in the community, whether you're in high school right now or you graduate at high school and started working and you're just not happy or you're older with kids and you're thinking, I've really got to do something with my life. What do we tell them? What? Ismael That what would you tell them? How do you get started?
00:21:40:18 - 00:21:59:02
Ismelda Alvarez
Yeah, definitely. I go to the Santa Fe website first, look at the academic programs we have to offer. You can definitely complete an application at Santa Fe. It takes less than 15 minutes to complete. Our application is free and then from there you'll be able to walk through the whole admissions process and even talk to an academic advisor.
00:21:59:02 - 00:22:22:07
Vilma Fuentes
And I would add that if people get stuck, whether you are a Spanish speaker or an English speaker, if you're stuck of like, what is this Florida residency thing? How do I prove this? Oh my gosh, this is a very long and complicated document. There's people here to help you write, either in the Office of Admissions or the Registrar's Office, and they speak Spanish and English.
00:22:22:11 - 00:22:40:15
Olga Asimbaya
Now we have a lab and they had a lot of students that come and need help. They don't speak English and they just need help and they really need to understand what is this about? So, anybody is welcome to come to the admissions office and the Office of Registrar for help with their applications.
00:22:41:22 - 00:22:59:05
Vilma Fuentes
So, and if you're not a student, what if you're someone who's just looking to work here? The two of you work at Santa Fe. What would you tell them about Santa Fe? You smell that you're you've been here less time. What So, advice would you give? What tips?
00:23:01:05 - 00:23:19:17
Ismelda Alvarez
I mean, I really love working here. You know, I enjoy my job. I think Elouise and I've been in the office of Admissions, but the culture is great. Very much student focused. If you're passionate about working with students, you definitely want to be here and I love my coworkers. We always have a great time together.
00:23:20:08 - 00:23:43:03
Vilma Fuentes
And I'm going to tell you, Imelda and others out there in the audience that if you finish your bachelors and you want to get a job and you want to come work here, you could be like Olga and keep studying. Santa Fe College has tuition waiver programs, so you can either continue studying at Santa Fe and get tuition waivers, or you could go to the University of Florida, enroll there.
00:23:43:13 - 00:23:49:14
Vilma Fuentes
And the college basically covers the tuition. Isn't that so, Olga? Is that, is that how it's working for you?
00:23:49:14 - 00:24:17:15
Olga Asimbaya
Yes. Yes. An office will pay for my tuition. And that's a blessing that now everybody has and they think come into work even part time. Here is a great thing. It's a great opportunity. I see people coming to work at the units and you know, they're very older people that have retired. They can come and work part time and, you know, help with their community and be together.
00:24:17:15 - 00:24:20:06
Olga Asimbaya
We work together really nice that Santa Fe.
00:24:20:15 - 00:24:39:00
Vilma Fuentes
Well, I want to thank the two of you ladies for taking the time to talk to us and share your experience. I want to thank you for everything you do to help our students get in through the door, make them feel welcomed and at home, and then as a Latina to Latinas, I want to say “Thank you”.