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Vilma
Welcome to Santa Fe College. This is Vilma Fuentes with our podcast on Developing Global Citizens. Today, we're here to celebrate the resumption of study abroad and the introduction of several new programs. We are joined by two of the faculty members who will be leading these programs.

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Vilma
Dr. Leslie Rios, a microbiology professor, and Dr. Jason McCombs, a religion professor. Their insights will be complemented by two former Santa Fe students, Alec Kissoondyal and Chantel Hover. So welcome to all of you. Thanks for being on the show.

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Jason
Thanks for having us.

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Vilma
Thank you. So, Dr. Rios, Leslie, let me start with you. Tell me a little bit about your academic background. What did you study? What international experiences did you have before coming to Santa Fe?

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Leslie
MM Before Santa Fe I was a biology professor. I did entomology and did research in viruses. So I studied. I was actually at the Centers for Disease Control during the H1N1 in 2009. So there was a pandemic before this one.

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Leslie
And then I have some international experience traveling to Belize, which is where I do the current study abroad. And I also lived in Mexico for a year.

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Vilma
So why why Belize? Tell me about the program that you've put together. Why Belize and what is it that you do there with students? What's the focus?

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Leslie
Yeah, Belize really stands out as an excellent location for a study abroad. One simple thing is that it's they speak English, so it helps with an an any intimidation factor. Or if somebody doesn't have a second language, then that's not a barrier to being able to participate.

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Leslie
It's really fascinating ecology with things that are pretty similar to Florida in some ways, but also really stand out as unique and on their own. And so it's a really great opportunity for students if they're interested in something like mangrove ecology or water quality, they can really have an excellent comparison between what's right here in our own

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Leslie
state and then what's just a little bit further down in the Caribbean. And what we do is we do have focus where students can choose to do something in ecology or they can also do a straight microbiology. We do water quality samples where we have these little containers that we take down and the students will collect water

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Leslie
from various locations. They can do it from wells. They've even taken them from puddles, from the ocean, from areas where there's some agricultural runoff. And the tests are really nice because they're portable, convenient ways to look for E coli contamination in the water.

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Leslie
And so they can do their independent research projects and choose what they want to do as they go. So all of the students are doing the same activities and then students will decide what things that they want to focus on.

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Leslie
One woman was interested in doing something with a bit to be a vet veterinarian. And so what she did is she interviewed the people that take the dogs in on the island, the Belize island dogs, and she got to get all this information.

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Leslie
And it was really, really rewarding for her to get to see the way that other countries are dealing with overpopulation of animals. So even though the title is a microbiology study abroad, there's really a lot of opportunity for students to pursue something that they're specifically interested in.

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Leslie
So it can be really tailored.

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Vilma
So is it necessary for students to go to Belize? Like, can they do all of this research here in Florida? What's the benefit to going abroad?

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Leslie
Yeah, that's a great question, because part of it is just a parallel of what things could be different between Florida and Belize, and that's on the scientific level. But then when you add the element of all of the cultural enrichment that people will get by hearing people speak Creole, by interacting with a group that is different from

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Leslie
what American population looks like. And of course, the food is always a selling point. Whenever you travel abroad, you're going to be exposed to some of the most delicious food that you've ever tasted. So that's maybe reason enough to to go.

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Vilma
So it sounds like it's a the program to Belize might be a gentle introduction to like international travel in that. Similar perhaps in climate to Florida. It's English speaking. We've got Caribbean connections, and yet it's not Florida.

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Vilma
Right. It's different enough that, you know, you're in another country. Is that correct?

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Leslie
Absolutely, yeah.

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Vilma
Dr. McCombs. Jason, you've been thinking about starting a new study abroad program for quite a long time. That's true. You and I have been engaged in this back and forth conversation for three years. For years.

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Jason
Four years, Yeah.

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Vilma
So before you tell me about your program, tell me a little bit about your background. What did you study and and what exposure have you had to international travel before? Certainly before coming to Santa Fe.

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Jason
Sure. So my academic background is in religious studies and Asian studies. My my Ph.D. is the department was Asian languages and cultures. And my research background is on India, specifically Buddhism and ancient India. Buddhism more or less has been dead in India for about eight centuries.

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Jason
So I study ancient periods. I read a bunch of dead languages, which most people find unusual. I translate texts from a language called Sanskrit, once called classical Tibetan one's called Pali. And I also look at material remains of what are called inscriptions because I study religious donations.

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Jason
So if you go to India, you can see these literally carved into stone. So that's my research background.

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Vilma
But you're proposing a study abroad program to Japan.

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Jason
Correct. So, I mean, my my heart is really in India, but India presents a lot of. Challenges, I think, to new travelers. And one of my best friends is a Japanese scholar, and we went to graduate school together and he currently lives in and works at a university in Kyushu, which is the southernmost island in Japan.

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Jason
So we've been talking about this and taking my students on a study abroad trip and hooking up with him at his university for a long time.

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Vilma
So. So to clarify, you're going to Japan and say not India, not China, not other parts of East Asia. Why?

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Jason
Because I mean. Well, it is it does have easy travel amenities. I think that makes it somewhat simpler. But also, I mean, every place in Asia has a fascinating culture. So if I could I would lead, study abroad, trips to every place in Asia.

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Jason
So Japan is where we're starting.

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Vilma
I know that what I hear certainly from our children and their peers is that, you know, most of them have been exposed to something in Japan, be it sushi publics or Japanese anime or Japanese something. There's already seems to be a natural interest among many of our students.

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Jason
It's true. There's a huge sort of Japan-o-philliac, among young people that's been going on that was going on when I was in graduate school. Maybe I'm too old. I, I don't totally understand it. But when you say the word Japan, young people in the United States, their eyes light up.

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Jason
So the study abroad trip that not just I'm leading, but we are leading because I'm leading with Professor Thomas Maple and his class that he's offering is on mass media studies, which includes anime. So we know this is a draw for many American students.

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Jason
So we're intentionally trying to use that as as leverage to get students interested in study abroad.

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Vilma
One thing I do know is there are many countries in the world that are very difficult, certainly for students that have disabilities or physical impairments. Japan is is very friendly for people with those kinds of challenges. Very, very friendly.

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Vilma
Some parts of the of Japan seem to be even more progressive than the U.S..

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Jason
I would say considerably more progressive than the U.S. Their infrastructure is more heavily invested in the United States infrastructure.

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Vilma
I've had the privilege of being in Tokyo once, and I know I instantly knew the difference the minute I got off the plane and use the bathroom and the airport. If you don't know what I'm talking about, watch cars the movie, and look at the sea when the little cars are using the bathroom.

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Vilma
At least that's what my kids tell me to do. Sorry, I digress. I'm being silly here.

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Jason
It's okay. Japanese toilets are very advanced.

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Vilma
But they are. They.

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Vilma
We feel like we're prehistoric, but. But you're studying. So what religions are you going to study in Japan?

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Jason
So the the main two Japanese religions are Buddhism and Shinto. And in addition to that, there's a there's a host of what we call new religions that probably in Japan are flourishing more than anywhere else in the world.

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Jason
So the trip is split into mass media studies and religious studies. And there's sort of a blending of old and new. So Professor Maple is in charge of the new like Japanese media, anime, manga. And so we start in Tokyo and then we go to Kyoto.

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Jason
And outside of Kyoto is the city of Nara, which was the original imperial capital of Japan. So I'm in charge of the old. So we go from that most vibrant modern city to the ancient capital of Japan. So it should be an exciting trip.

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Jason
So to answer your question, the short is Buddhism in Shinto. So we will be visiting many Japanese temples and Shinto shrines.

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Vilma
And you'll also be going to Fukuoka

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Jason
It starts with an F, so Fukuoka. Yeah. So we go from Tokyo to Kyoto with Nara and then further south to Fukuoka. And Fukuoka is where my good friend and colleague works.

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Vilma
Wonderful. And you'll be visiting his institution?

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Jason
Yes. So he actually specializes in Japanese religious sites, especially mountain religion. So we're hoping to go to his university and he's going to give a talk on all the places that we've visited, some of their historical background.

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Vilma
How exciting. This is really interesting. Maybe I'll tag along somehow. I don't know. We'll see. But let me turn to some of our students are actually they're not students anymore. They're not our graduates to hear about some of their experiences.

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Vilma
So first I'd like to invite Alec Kissoondyal, to talk to us. Alec, you graduated from Santa Fe in 2020, I believe. Is that correct?

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Alec
And that's correct. Right in the middle of COVID. So it was a unique experience.

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Vilma
You went all virtual at the very end. Yes. But I think before that happened, before the pandemic, you were able to participate in one or two study abroad programs. Can you tell us about that?

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Alec
Sure. So in the summer of 2019, I participated in the Sweden and Denmark Study Abroad program and then in February of 2020. So right before everything kind of shut down, I was lucky enough to go to Jamaica and experience that.

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Alec
You know, those were wonderful experience.

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Vilma
Okay, so you did this twice. So tell me about the Sweden and Denmark program. What was what class were you enrolled in? What was the focus of that?

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Alec
So that was a sociology course. And so I'm not a sociology major, but Sweden and Denmark was just such a unique opportunity. And I was just thinking to myself, Well, when am I ever going to get to do this again?

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Alec
And, you know, it still ties into education. I think I still got like a general education credit if I am not mistaken. Yes. And so, you know, it it it all worked out. And yeah, I mean, it was just wonderful. I mostly chose it because it was, you know, again, it's just something you don't really hear often about people going

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Alec
to Sweden and Denmark knows how to do it now. So yeah, that that kind of influenced my choice for that.

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Vilma
What did you learn?

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Alec
You know, a give me perspective. I think that was the biggest thing about that trip. I haven't I had never been to Europe before. And so, you know, going there and experiencing a different culture, but also seeing how other people perceive the United States was quite interesting.

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Alec
And I feel like it's so easy to if you're if you're in the middle of a culture, you don't really get to see the full picture, right? You need to step outside of it to really get perspective. And so that was really cool to kind of see what other and see what what people in Sweden and Denmark

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Alec
do differently culturally. And you know how there are still similarities and differences and to see, you know, where those lie, what those those lines are. And that was that was fascinating. I'm still friends with a lot of the my fellow students that I was on the trip with.

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Alec
I still am in frequent communication with them. And I mean, that was lovely to just to know that, that like there was long term relationships and friendships that came out of that trip, not only abroad, but also just come back to the United States.

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Alec
You still have a sort of a support network with those same people.

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Vilma
And wasn't that program also focused on marriage and family relations?

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Alec
It was it was it was more broad than that, though. So primarily it was it was marriage and family. But I actually did my final project for that class on disabilities and how people with special needs are kind of are treated or are the accommodations that these countries have for them have for people special needs?

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Alec
And so that was that was interesting. And yeah, it was just kind of a I felt it would be good to take it in that direction. And, you know, Doug was was on board with that.

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Vilma
And so that's Professor Doug Diekow and Alec. So you as part of your program to Sweden and Denmark, you went to Örebro, I believe it's called, which is is the like the capital of the deaf in Sweden. What did you see there that was different?

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Vilma
That was new, at least compared to what you had seen in the United States?

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Alec
Well, so it's interesting. We went to a essentially like a high school over there. We spent a lot of time at this high school in Örebro interacting with the students. One of the students, he wasn't deaf, but both of his parents were.

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Alec
And so speaking with him was very interesting because he had a different perspective on the world. Because of that, you know, you kind of learn to be an interesting and more active listener and more perceptive of what was going on around him.

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Alec
But I also have a sibling with special needs, and so we kind of connected there. There was still that that that solidarity just kind of having those those experiences, even though our experiences are different, it was just still that kind of that understanding.

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Alec
Michelle Freas also was kind of really unique to see her be in that environment, too. I mean, you know, she she teaches sign language and she's she's just like a wonderful, wonderful person. So to kind of get to see her talk more about that and interact with that student was also really fascinating.

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Vilma
Did you how did you communicate with this student and others? Did you communicate in Swedish or like sign language or did you use a translator?

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Alec
Well, so English is the bridge. The bridge language. Every everyone I really talked to over there knew English better than I do, honestly. And I'm an English major, so little ashamed to say it. But yeah, I mean, there was no real language barrier there.

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Alec
And, you know, and that's that's one of the things that was surprising, right. You know, you kind of you go to a foreign country and kind of think, oh, no, like how am I going to communicate? But with a student in Denmark and as as you learn from a lot of other countries as well, I mean, there's

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Alec
that that that English is kind of the bridge. It's, it's, you know, people use it as like a business language is kind of a trade language. So there's that connection there and it made things pretty easy there to interact with people.

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Vilma
So I want to know, you said that you went to Sweden, Denmark and Jamaica back to back. Right. Where did you get all this money? Did your parents pay for it? How how were you able to afford these trips?

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Alec
So I'm very fortunate to be a Gainesville local. So while I'm going to school and at UF right now, anybody, even when I was at Santa Fe, I was fortunate enough to stay at home and live with my family and so I paid for my trips.

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Alec
However, I was able to do that in large part because I was able to, you know, avoid bills that other people would would normally have to pay. So, for example, I don't really have to pay rent. So a lot of the money that I make from my job doesn't really immediately kind of go right back out.

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Alec
So I was able to to save up in that regard and and plan ahead for several months. And so when those, those trips came up, that that really contributed to to being able to pay for it. I also, especially with the Jamaican trip, I kind of looked at the price and said, I believe the Jamaica trips

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Alec
one of the one of the cheapest study abroad, which does not impact the quality of the trip. It was a lovely trip, but I was thinking about that too. I was like, okay, well, you know, what can I afford and how much am I willing to pay?

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Alec
And so that that also influenced my choices.

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Vilma
Chantel So let me turn to you. What were your experiences with study abroad while you were at Santa Fe?

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Chantel
Sure. I'll give you just kind of a little snippet of my my travels. And I think the biggest thing I gained from each one, these are all aspects of a study abroad trip. But I think that each trip was unique and what really stood out and helped in my kind of professional and academic development.

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Chantel
So I also went to Sweden. I went to Sweden first. It was the least expensive trip and that was an important thing for me. And I think from Sweden I really, really was able to connect with students and faculty in the country and as Alec had mentioned about his trip and those students are students who I have

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Chantel
seen both in Sweden and in the United States since and have deep connections with to this day, which is just amazing. I went to Jamaica and in Jamaica I think my biggest takeaway was the connections I made with the professors that led the trip.

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Chantel
I developed a really deep bond that exists to this day. When I look for, you know, recommendation letters for different colleges and programs, I know I can turn to them. And they they know about my studies. They know about my academic development.

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Chantel
They can speak to it. And that is invaluable. And then I also traveled to Ukraine, and that trip completely altered the course of my studies, and it completely changed my outlook at what region I wanted to pursue within my degree and just really made me reevaluate academically what I wanted to do.

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Vilma
So what did. So what did you do? What did you end up studying? How did you change after Ukraine?

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Chantel
Sure. So Ukraine was a really interesting trip and obviously it's a relevant topic right now with what's going on. But I mean, I went in 2019 and some people don't realize that there was tension way before the war that's happening right now.

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Chantel
So in 2019, there were kind of safety protocols and like figuring out where in Ukraine we would go. And if you do a little bit of more research, you'll know that Russia took Crimea in 2014. So there is a longstanding amount of tension between Ukraine and Russia, not just between the last couple of decades, but over, honestly , centuries. 

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Chantel
So. I was a political science major at Santa Fe, and I knew that I liked political science. I knew that I liked international relations. I wasn't really sure beyond that. I mean, I was getting my A.A. right at the very beginning of just figuring out what you want to focus on, like political science and international relations

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Chantel
is kind of enough. But as I learned about Ukraine, my trip, I really, really delved into the research for a variety of reasons. And so I, I just learned so much about the history, about the politics. About the power dynamics, etc..

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Chantel
And then I went to Ukraine and I got to meet people who lived there. And then I saw all of this research put into the kind of social norms and dynamics of day to day life. And so when I came back, I realized I was really, really interested in pursuing what I had learned.

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Chantel
So this was less than a year before I graduated Santa Fe. And so upon graduation, I ended up transferring to Columbia University in New York. And I received a bachelor's in political science with a concentration in Slavic studies.

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Chantel
So the majority of my political science classes were about politics in Russia and Ukraine, contemporary history between the two countries and the Russian language.

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Vilma
And if I'm not mistaken, I think when you were at Santa Fe, you were studying Spanish, weren't you?

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Chantel
I did Santa Fe. You have to have your language requirement, right? I love Cuban and Venezuelan food and Spanish, but that was a language of it. And so that was my that was my path there.

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Vilma
Okay. But but you went to Columbia and then what did you study? Russian or Ukrainian?

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Chantel
So I initially studied Ukrainian and then I ended up transferring to Russian for a variety of reasons, one of which being while I can definitely sympathize and resonate with the pride of the Ukrainian people in preserving their language for my studies in post-Soviet countries.

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Chantel
Russian is the bridge language for all. And so studying Ukrainian, you're really kind of pigeonholed only in Ukraine. Whereas with Russian, the majority of Ukrainians speak Russian and the majority of Russians speak Russian. And in the post-Soviet states, most still speak Russian.

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Vilma
So so I'm going to ask and this might sound a bit personal. It is personal, but like, how did you afford this? Like so you were like addicted to traveling abroad, it sounds like maybe not unlike Alec, you entered three different locations and now Columbia.

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Vilma
That's a fairly expensive private school. How did you afford all of this?

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Chantel
Yeah, I know. It sounds like I wasn't able to make it all happen, but, I mean, I'm so glad I was a part time student at Santa Fe. It took me four and a half years to get my associate's degree because I worked a minimum of two jobs while going to classes.

00;23;47;09 - 00;23;59;22
Chantel
And so finances were always at the top of my mind. But I prioritized travel and I'm really glad that I did. And that sounds very cookie cutter like, Oh, well, I prioritize traveling too, but that doesn't get me a plane ticket.

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Chantel
And so I had two different ways that I approached funding my study abroad trips. So with Sweden I knew I just wanted to get out. And so I honestly chose the least expensive program that was available at that year and that year with Sweden.

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Chantel
I was working two retail jobs at the time and retail it sounds a little bit corny, but when you work in retail, you oftentimes have sales goals, right? And you'll have a sales goal of, say, $10,000 by the end of the month.

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Chantel
And each day, as you make a little bit of profit, you take a red marker and there's like a picture of a thermometer. Right. And you color up that thermometer until you reach your goal. Well, I took that process of what I do at work and I applied it to my study abroad trip.

00;24;48;26 - 00;25;07;24
Chantel
But this time I used a piece of graph paper and the Sweden flag is really easy. It's just a sideways cross on a rectangle. And each picture I would stow away anything from 20 to $110, depending on what I could afford to stow away at that paycheck.

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Chantel
And then I would use the Sweden flag as my graph and I would color it up and up until I had colored in the entire flag. And so it can seem kind of elementary or childish, but having that kind of visual representation of your savings and a continual reminder of what those savings are there for, make it

00;25;26;23 - 00;25;31;06
Chantel
really easy not to pull from it later for like a dinner out or something like that.

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Vilma
Did either one of you receive scholarships to travel abroad?

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Alec
I did not.

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Chantel
I received a study abroad scholarship for Jamaica, I believe. And and so that helped offset the cost. And my Ukraine trip the flight and some amenities were funded through a grant, which is something that I highly recommend to you.

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Chantel
I went to your office, Dr. Francis, and I highly recommend going to the Office for International Education because beyond study abroad, study abroad is amazing and you should do it for so many reasons. But there are options for finding third party scholarships and things like that or going abroad.

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Chantel
And so even if you're studying abroad, I highly recommend looking for those third party scholarships and not just looking at your institution.

00;26;27;05 - 00;26;44;23
Vilma
So let me ask all of you this question. Santa Fe College. What we offer is short term faculty led programs. These aren't semester long programs. Students are able to travel with faculty members for for a few weeks. Is it worth it?

00;26;44;24 - 00;26;54;05
Vilma
It sounds like an awful lot of effort. I mean, is it worth it? Or for the faculty, is it enough? You know, you take somebody to Japan for a couple of weeks. Is that enough?

00;26;57;19 - 00;27;08;29
Jason
I mean, I think the I think the idea is they're getting their feet wet. Right. To to spur interest in other cultures and to give them the eternal travel bug for the rest of their lives.

00;27;09;15 - 00;27;21;26
Leslie
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think also we just pack it in. We don't. We don't stop. From the moment they hit the ground to the moment they get back on the plane home, we are doing something amazing every day.

00;27;22;07 - 00;27;39;03
Leslie
And if it's okay, I'd like to actually go back to the question of what can we do in Belize that we haven't done in Florida? I can't believe I left out the Mayan ruins and, you know, mayan culture the first day we get there and we're resting and we get a homemade family dinner with the host

00;27;39;26 - 00;27;51;21
Leslie
that first night. So that's amazing, right? You're eating authentic food. And then the very next day, we get to visit the Lamanai ruins. And this year we have also a visit to one of the most amazing caves.

00;27;51;21 - 00;28;02;19
Leslie
It's called the ATM. It's Actun Tunichil Muknal
.You have to swim to get into the cave. You actually have to swim into the cave. So is it worth it? Absolutely.

00;28;03;21 - 00;28;17;28
Jason
And I'll add on to that, since I teach religious studies teaching religion in a for a while, the classroom always has some sort of artificial nature to it. I mean, you you do your best in the humanities to bring the world inside the room.

00;28;18;07 - 00;28;33;00
Jason
But when you actually go out into the world, even when I take students in to religious services in Gainesville, it's just an entirely different way to look at people culture, to actually immerse yourself in it and.

00;28;33;00 - 00;28;36;16
Vilma
Chantel now, like, what would you add? Is this enough, these short term programs?

00;28;38;24 - 00;28;58;01
Chantel
Yeah. I think that both of our city abroad leaders here encapsulated perfectly why it's worth it. But I also think that this is kind of the crux to the point of this whole session. Right, is to explore and figure out the point of these study abroad programs and if they're worth it and 1,000,000% yet.

00;28;58;21 - 00;29;16;00
Chantel
And I think that. There's so many kind of initiatives that we try to push off for later and say that it doesn't work right now. Let me do it another time. I'll be able to do it when I'm settled with my comfortable 9 to 5 job and 401(k) or what have you.

00;29;16;16 - 00;29;29;22
Chantel
But life very rarely goes as planned as we can see from that. If you had pushed it off till next year, how the pandemic might have changed your study abroad plans for me transferring to Columbia, it was an academic culture shock.

00;29;30;21 - 00;29;43;10
Chantel
The study abroad programs were far, far more expensive and so there was absolutely no way, even with third party scholarships, I was going to be able to afford a trip here. And so I wouldn't have been able to do that, right.

00;29;43;10 - 00;30;04;28
Chantel
And then even looking forward now, I graduated and I'm working. I mean, your jobs generally give you a set amount of vacation time, and that vacation time gets eaten up by a friend here who's getting married. You know, a small staycation over here, a doctor's appointment or an illness, you know, like that can get eaten up

00;30;04;28 - 00;30;23;07
Chantel
so quickly. And you see, we just heard, right, how passionate the study abroad leaders are about their trips. That is what it is like the entire time that you're there. And if you try to plan a trip on your own later one, I can guarantee from the two trips I went on that those trips would be way more expensive.

00;30;23;07 - 00;30;37;18
Chantel
The two like study abroad led trips that I went on, they would be far more expensive than if I had gone on my own and to it is so much more isolating to try to plan and do all of that yourself.

00;30;38;03 - 00;30;52;13
Chantel
And when you are trying to plan these trips later, it's rare that you're going to have the connections, the pathways, the setup, the the academic immersion on top of cultural immersion that you have in a study abroad program.

00;30;52;20 - 00;30;55;11
Chantel
So in this case, there's really no time like the present.

00;30;55;22 - 00;31;12;00
Vilma
Thank you so much, all of you, for sharing your experiences. This is really exciting, enriching and you all have very powerful stories. I just want to add that Santa Fe College faculty will be leading nine short term study abroad programs in the spring and summer of next year.

00;31;13;12 - 00;31;40;02
Vilma
These faculty members have extensive subject matter, experience, knowledge of the area and in some cases, foreign language expertise to ensure the safety and well-being of everyone. And then, thanks to the generous support of several private donors, we anticipate awarding 30 study abroad scholarships, all ranging in price from from $1,250 to $2,000.

00;31;40;02 - 00;31;57;00
Vilma
So it won't pay for the full cost of study abroad, but will reduce the cost significantly for some and make it feasible. Thank you all for sharing your insights and experiences. I hope your stories will help a new generation of students experience the power of study abroad.